Webinar 2 - Active Listening to Better Understand Buyers, with Andrea Rosenhaft
Our latest webinar was ‘Active listening to better understand buyers’ and you can watch the 25-minute recording here.
Active listening is a powerful skill that can enable sellers to engage emotionally with buyers. It can help them gain new knowledge and build stronger connections. We all know that it’s important to be a good listener – but how can you become one?
We are delighted to be joined in this webinar by Andrea Rosenhaft, psychotherapist and licensed clinical social worker and contributor to PsychologyToday.com since 2011.
Andrea is the founder of BWellBStrong, a mental health treatment consultation and insurance advocacy organisation. She treats families who have young adults and adolescents diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, anxiety, eating disorders and/or depression (more at https://bwellbstrong.com)
Automated transcript
Webinar 1 - Active listening to better understand buyers (recording), with Andrea Rosenhaft
Alastair Cole 0:05
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the webinar. I'm Alastair Cole, Co-Founder of Revenue Coach and your host for this session.
Revenue Coach is a unique sales coaching platform that accelerates growth by empowering sellers to close deals quicker. We typically see 4x higher win rates and 24% lower stress for sales reps using our products.
This is the second webinar in our new series where we explore some of the current challenges in the workplace, especially for sales professionals. Today's topic is ‘Active listening to better understand buyers’. We all know that it's important to be a good listener and we want to share some practical tips on how you can become one.
We're delighted to be joined today by Andrea Rosenhaft, psychotherapist and licensed clinical social worker. Andrea is the founder of the BWellBStrong (https://bwellbstrong.com/) mental health treatment consultancy and insurance advocacy organisation. Andrea has been a regular contributor to Psychology Today, since 2011. Hi Andrea!
Andrea Rosenhaft 1:04
Thank you, Alastair. It's a pleasure to be here.
Alastair Cole 1:05
It's great to have you! I'm really excited to hear from you about the benefits of active listening to others and some practical tips on how we, as salespeople, and others, can better learn to improve ourselves in this area. Before we get started. I've got 10 rapid fire questions for you, so we can learn about you as an individual - as a human being. I'm just going to fire off straight away. What's the worst job you've ever had Andrea?
Andrea Rosenhaft 1:28
So it was during the holiday time one year, I was folding sweaters at a women's clothing store. So I would fold sweaters on a table and then the people would come mess them up again. And then I have to refold them and I got very frustrated and very bored very quickly.
Alastair Cole 1:42
Okay, what's your ultimate sandwich?
Andrea Rosenhaft 1:44
So as a nod to my Jewish heritage, pastrami coleslaw on rye with mustard.
Alastair Cole 1:49
What's the one thing you own that you should really throw out?
Andrea Rosenhaft 1:53
So this ratty, old stuffed teddy bear from my youth that I hold on to, and my dog has kind of adopted it as hers, so she's kind of torn it up even further, so I really shouldn't get rid of it.
Alastair Cole 2:06
Yeah, your dog Shelby right. They tend to take over. Talking about animals, what is the scariest animal on the planet?
Andrea Rosenhaft 2:13
I think if I would see a charging rhinoceros coming at me, I would be pretty terrified.
Alastair Cole 2:19
Yeah, apples or oranges?
Andrea Rosenhaft 2:22
Definitely apples.
Alastair Cole 2:24
Yeah, totally. Have you ever asked anybody for their autograph?
Andrea Rosenhaft 2:27
I remember when I was a kid. I went to see a Broadway show on Jackson Five and I was hanging out at the state shore and I got my playbill autographed.
Alastair Cole 2:37
What do you think happens when we die?
Andrea Rosenhaft 2:39
I think we're reunited with our loved ones who are awful, also passed.
Alastair Cole 2:44
I hope so! Favourite movie?
Andrea Rosenhaft 2:45
So I don't know how well known this movie is but it's called The Italian Job. There's some great cars, car chase scenes with little mini coopers in there. It's about a great robbery.
Alastair Cole 2:58
Well known here with Michael Caine. What's your favourite smell?
Andrea Rosenhaft 3:02
Vanilla.
Alastair Cole 3:03
And the last question, you get to listen to one song for the rest of your life - what is it?
Andrea Rosenhaft 3:06
I love “Because the night” with Natalie Merchant and the 10,000 maniacs.
Alastair Cole 3:10
Amazing. Well, thank you, that’s a nice window into you.
Getting back to a core topic today. Like, you know, I think a question on a lot of people's lips would be what is active listening?
Andrea Rosenhaft 3:22
So active listening is a type of listening in which you make a conscious effort to hear the whole message when someone is speaking to you, rather than only part of it and you don't, while you're listening, you're not forming the answer - your response while they're speaking.
You wait until until you hear the whole message before you form the response that that you're going to give them
Alastair Cole 3:48
And how powerful can it be if done properly?
Andrea Rosenhaft 3:51
It's very powerful because you're listening to the whole message. You're not judging what they're saying. Right? You're not pre forming any ideas in your mind. And you really get the gist of what they're saying. And it enables you to listen actively, you're not distracted. You're, you're not missing critical details. You're not being judgmental, and the other person feels heard which is unusual these days. The other person feels valued, because you're able to mirror back to them exactly what they're talking about.
Alastair Cole 4:35
So you touched on some of the good things that happened to the person speaking, what are the other benefits for them, if they are actively listened to?
Andrea Rosenhaft 4:45
Instead they feel heard ,they feel listened to, they feel not judged. They feel like the other person gets them, they feel like they're a valued member of the team.
Alastair Cole 4:53
What does that do then to maybe what they're saying you know, your experience of working with families and teenagers who, you know, have some kind of trauma, what does that do to those people who were speaking, what is the outcome for the speaker, if they are actively listened to?
Andrea Rosenhaft 5:11
The speaker feels validated, which is very important, right? Because they don't feel like they're being dismissed when someone is forming a response before the person is done speaking, the person tends to interrupt, and the message is diluted. So when the person is able to finish, they don't feel as if the message is diluted, right? And they don't feel interrupted, they don't feel dismissed, and they don't feel that what they have to say, isn't important.
Alastair Cole 5:41
Okay. Thanks. And, you know, I'm guessing that enables a more emotional engagement, would that be fair?
Andrea Rosenhaft 5:48
It does, it makes the connection much stronger. Yeah.
Alastair Cole 5:53
And does that mean then that there are some, you know, a higher level of rapport and connection that that unlocks more information?
Andrea Rosenhaft 6:03
It can, yes, over time, especially in a psychotherapeutic session. And in the therapeutic alliance, it allows them to build trust and rapport. In the therapeutic alliance, there's been studies shown that regardless of the type of modality used, that good therapeutic alliance is the number one predictor of a successful outcome of therapy. So I would imagine that translates into other settings. If you build rapport with your, with your buyer, over time, then that relationship gets more solid and established and the trust is built.
Alastair Cole 6:41
Yeah. So what we're saying, you know, what we're seeing in the kind of sales world is that there's an increasing number of buyers who are part of the buying decision. So there's more people you need to talk to - sometimes in a group setting - and that they're having lots more interactions digitally. So the time with individual salespeople is reduced. So there's even more, is it fewer opportunities, I guess, to build rapport with them.
So what would be your top tips forr salespeople who are sitting down with buyers, either physically or virtually - what would be your top tips about how they can start building their active listening muscle?
Andrea Rosenhaft 7:24
So you be in the moment, right. You paraphrase what they have to say back to them. So which involves summarising what the speaker has just said to clarify details. Nodding, right non verbally, to inform the speaker that you're able to process the meaning of their message. Making statements of agreement so that the speaker knows you're following what they're saying. Maintaining eye contact is very important. Keeping your gaze natural, don't like stare at them. So that the speaker knows that you're focusing on them, and not in anything else in the room - or again, across digitally, right, make sure you're maintaining eye contact. Asking specific probing questions, so that the speaker narrows down a broad topic for you, and you show that you're focused in on what, what they're saying.
So those are some tips that I can give you to make sure that the speaker knows - the buyer knows - that you're paying attention to what he or she has to say.
Alastair Cole 8:29
Yeah. A lot of the time in those meetings, I feel like I want to make notes because the information is really important. What about note taking - is that ok?
Andrea Rosenhaft 8:39
You can just say “If I look away from you, it means you're down at my data, you know, data on my desk, it means that I'm just taking notes because this information is so important.
Alastair Cole 8:52
Okay, what about the difference? You mentioned, verbal cues and nonverbal cues, is one more important than the other. When you're demonstrating that you're listening,
Andrea Rosenhaft 9:02
I would say if you're if you're doing digitally, verbal cues are a little bit more important. Because something gets a little bit lost across a digital platform. So it's easy to hear someone than to notice what they're doing non verbally. But still eye contact, if you can do look at the camera, rather than, you know, at the screen, because the person is seeing you look at the camera.
Alastair Cole 9:31
Yeah, that whole virtual engagement is so much harder. And obviously, we've been practising and improving. I'm sure you've done lots of that in the last couple of years. Have you have you have you picked up any what would be your tips for for, for listening actively through through to more or Google meetings or video conferencing? Generally?
Andrea Rosenhaft 9:54
I mean, again, you know what I said - wait till the person is finished speaking. Like if they're if they Pause, just, you know, try and be comfortable with a little silence, right? Don't jump right in and see if they're going to speak again, because then might be just collecting themselves. And just, you know, ask for you can ask, say, are you done? Are you finished? Is it okay? If I speak now that's perfectly okay. You know, you want to validate again.
Validation is really important. Because you're, you're, you know, you can say you can validate what they're saying you can validate their emotions with a salesperson, you can say, you know, so I'm hearing what you're saying. And that's going back on mirroring, mirroring what they're saying. So this is what I hear you're saying, because you want to make sure that you understand perfectly what they're saying. And if they, you know, if you don't have all the facts down, this is your chance to get the facts down.
Alastair Cole 10:51
You talked about silence there, and I saw a clip of AI engineer Lex Friedman asked Elon Musk a question, and Musk took 22 seconds to respond, right, which is a, felt like an age. Is that normal? Should we be allowing people that length of time to respond?
Andrea Rosenhaft 11:09
I think that's a virtual platform that seems like an aeon, you know, like a long time. I think he's a little bit of an odd character. So, you know, I don't think a regular person would take 22 seconds to respond.
Alastair Cole 11:26
Yeah. And what about the end of, you know, sentences when people stopped speaking? How long would you think we should give them?
Andrea Rosenhaft 11:33
Three or four seconds?
Alastair Cole 11:37
Okay. Yeah, that's helpful in the sales world. You know, sometimes we have… I've been on a call recently, where we’re wanting to talk about a product or service, but the buyer has been talking very passionately about problems they've had at work, right, but nothing that I can help with because it's, it's, it's about interpersonal relationships. Should a salesperson just let them talk or guide them in a particular direction? And how, how would you? How would you do that, try and get them back on topic without interrupting them?
Andrea Rosenhaft 12:08
So again, I would validate with the buyer saying to you like “Gee, that sounds really frustrating, you know what you're going to work, that sounds really frustrating”.
And then you can gently redirect them back to the topic at hand, like using many steps. And this is where it calls for a bit of creativity, on seller points, like what I call creative connections, like connection between what you're selling, and what the buyer is talking about, even if there's like several degrees of separation. So you want to gently, you know, inch towards what the business at hand is by using those connections. And you've got to be a little bit creative there. But you still want to gently redirect the buyer towards the business at hand.
Alastair Cole 12:52
Okay, that sounds tough
It is tough!
Andrea Rosenhaft 12:56
It is tough! You don't obviously want to insult him. Right? You don't want to just interrupt him and say, Listen, this is what we have to, we have to get to the topic at hand. But you want to gently redirect him to get your message. If you have, like, a product that you're selling, you want to kind of bring it out. And you know, listen, I understand that you're really frustrated at work. But you know, this, may I want to show you this, you know, that would be really helpful. But if you don't have a visual cue, then you've got to then it's you've got to, you know, a tough assignment.
Alastair Cole 13:31
And what about the flip side of that? So, you know, I've booked a meeting, I've got a sales appointment, and but the prospect of by don't doesn't seem like they really want to talk that they're not saying very much how do we how can you get them encourage them to speak?
Andrea Rosenhaft 13:46
So then you want to start asking them open-ended questions, maybe, about themselves and or their children, because people love to talk about their kids if they're married, or themselves.
And my open ended questions, I mean, questions that you can't answer with a yes or no. So questions that have to be answered with a sentence or a couple sentences. Like, not, not a question like, are you married? And that can be answered with a yes or no, but questions like, you know, tell me about yourself a little bit, or where did you go to college? What did you major in? Why did you major in that? What are your interests? Where did you last go on vacation? How did you like it? Why did you like it, stuff like that?
That takes a little bit of conversation to answer. And then once people get going and warm up to you and show that you take an interest in them, they'll be more likely to talk to you.
Alastair Cole 14:47
Okay, you know it's a two way street, and often I find myself being interrupted by others, right, the buyer keeps interrupting me when I'm trying to share a message about the product or the service. What's the right way to handle that?
Andrea Rosenhaft 15:04
So you can say something like, “I really value your input and your feedback. But it would help me to hear it all at once, when I'm finished speaking, so we could have a targeted discussion”. So that way, you're actually telling him you, you value what he's got to say. And then you want to wait. And you want to have a good discussion with him at the end, or her.
Alastair Cole 15:29
Okay, that's helpful, and then you know, that that's obviously helping keep the conversation flowing and fair, and there are no interruptions. Are there any ways to encourage others to actively listen to us?
Andrea Rosenhaft 15:45
You can say, “I really want to get my point across, you know, so I would appreciate it if I can just say what I'm going to say. And you can listen really closely. And I'll let you know when I'm finished, and then we can discuss what I've said.”.
Alastair Cole 16:03
Okay, wonderful. And what cues would you expect to see? Or how would you expect to feel if kind of active listening is happening? If it's going well? How do we know if it's actually working and, and the act of listening is taking place?
Andrea Rosenhaft 16:18
So if the people that are up, I'm speaking, and the people that are listening to me are engaged, right, I would expect to see that they're looking at me. That they're nodding, that maybe they're even taking notes. Right, I wouldn't expect to see that they're looking away, that they're even maybe just looking at their phones or something like that, or that they're, they're not making eye contact with me.
Alastair Cole 16:43
You mentioned phones there. And as we're starting to get back into meeting face to face and in person, what would be your tips for people around how they use or don't use their digital devices, their mobile phone, their laptop, when they're sitting down with a buyer or a prospect or a colleague? What would be your tips on how to handle that?
Andrea Rosenhaft 17:05
Well, I mean, you know, this, this isn't my area buying and selling, so if they need to use their, their, their laptop, for business, you know, that's one thing. But if, if they can avoid it, I think that the person to person interaction would be much more valuable, if they could place all their attention on the person that they're interacting with. That is, that would be the priority.
Alastair Cole 17:35
Yeah, you know, mobile phones and notifications are a challenge. Would you recommend that I turn off my mobile in a meeting?
Andrea Rosenhaft 17:44
Yeah if you could, if it would be possible, and just focus all your attention on the person that you're interacting with. Okay, that shows him that you respect his time. Right? I mean, imagine how you would feel if you were in a meeting with someone, right? And they, they, they got a call and they said, I have to take this call, that's telling them that the call is more important. And they're not respecting your time.
Alastair Cole 18:14
Yeah. And, as I said, the number of buyers who… the buying group size is growing. So we have to deal with more buyers, it's more complex, and often they're a group meeting. So have you got any, you know, that potentially could be even harder because it's more people in the room to interrupt me, or there's more people for me to actively listen to.
So how does it you know, you've got a lot of experience with groups, what would be your tips? If we had, you know, lots of people around the table? Should I change my active listening style for that group?
Andrea Rosenhaft 18:43
Well, if you're, if you're speaking, right, if you're going to, you know, speak first, you're going to say, I would, I would say something upfront, like “I'm gonna”, you know, my, “I'm going to speak for about, you know, 10 minutes. And I would appreciate if you would just let me speak so I can get all my points across. And then I'll take questions.”.
So you let them know that … you set up your expectations at the beginning, so you don't get a lot of people interrupting you. While you're trying to speak and get your point across because then it'll get diluted.
Alastair Cole 19:18
Okay. So there's something you've mentioned a couple of times about this kind of expectation setting at the start kind of laying down that those rules is, is that something you know, is that something you do every time you're going into a session where it's important that you're, you're listening or is that do you tend to do that? Only if the other people, you know, interrupt you will be challenging? How often do you set those expectations at the start?
Andrea Rosenhaft 19:43
I do it with new clients, especially with new clients at the beginning. But once the client and I have a solid therapeutic alliance, I don't tend to do it as much.
Alastair Cole 19:56
Okay, I feel that you know, in business, perhaps We might give them the benefit of doubt to start with, but I guess if you're being interrupted, then you've given us a nice way to set those expectations and explain that to listen carefully and get the points across. Okay, that that's, that's great. And what we're finding, if those meetings are, are challenging, and you're having to kind of stick up for yourself, other people are interrupting you, that that that can that ends up feeling quite negative, are there any, you know, if you if you come out of a meeting, and either you haven't been able to get your point across, or don't feel like you've been actively listened to, you know, it can be quite a negative feeling of what would be your tips about how to, you know, look, after your own emotions take care of yourself? Or, or what would change your feeling, your perception, about that engagement.
Andrea Rosenhaft 20:57
I mean, you know, I think the best way is, you know, not to beat yourself up and just say, you know, I did the best I could, and acknowledge that it was a tough audience, and try and look back on it and see what you could have done better. But also acknowledge what you did well,
Alastair Cole 21:15
okay, yeah, because, you know, there are a couple of times where I've gone in and tried to be an excellent listener, and for whatever reason, it hasn't happened, you know, if we, if we, if we practice some of these tips that you you've shared, you know, how long would you expect it to take before we start seeing a kind of change in our approach and the benefits as a result of being better listeners?
Andrea Rosenhaft 21:39
So I mean, experts usually say that to change behaviour, it takes about 30 days. Okay, so, a, you know, a practice. So to see, to see, like, change, it takes about 30 days, and that's practising, you know, every day a little bit. So that's the basic consensus.
Alastair Cole 22:01
Yes. And other some meetings, you know, as a salesperson, are the some meetings where we should be wearing our active listening hat and others where we don't need to, or is it something we should be practising, you know, in every single engagement,
Andrea Rosenhaft 22:16
Every single engagement, you want to put on your active listening hat. Even if it's just you and your supervisor, right. That's the best time because it's more, I don't know, I want to say more informal. But, um, it's actually the best time because you can, it's just one on one. And it's a good time to actually do, like, the mirroring exercise, where you mirror her back to him or her what he said. And you can even say, Listen, I'm practising my active listening skills, tell me if this is what you hear. If I'm gonna mirror back to you what I've heard you say, tell me if this is accurate.
Alastair Cole 22:53
Okay, that's really helpful. And I think that's something that I've learned in this session, that almost vocalising what I'm planning to do, or the fact that I want to actively listen, or that I'm setting an expectation at the beginning that I'd like to talk without being interrupted. So rather than it being a kind of, it's a very on the front foot thing, that's really great.
We're kind of coming to the end now, and I really appreciate your time Andrea.
I thought your tips about being in the moment, putting the devices down, eye contact were great, you know. Those verbal and nonverbal cues to show your listening, and your recommendations of open ended questions, it's really great to get somebody talking.
And you know, that that kind of expectation setting at the start is something that I haven't done and that I will start doing now about explaining that I am active listening, but also setting expectations if somebody is being a challenge to, to engage with. So thank you very much for your time. It's been a really, a really informative session.
Andrea Rosenhaft 23:57
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Alastair Cole 24:02
My pleasure!
I'd say please get in touch with Andrea via BWellBStrong (). If you'd like to learn more about her work, or if you or others need counselling support.
And if you'd like to learn more about Revenue Coach or our products, please reach out to me on LinkedIn. So it's been a great half hour. Andrea, thank you very much for your expertise and your time.
Andrea Rosenhaft 23:22
Thank you Alastair!
Alastair Cole 23:24
Okay, great. We're gonna leave the session there. Thanks everybody for your time. And we will share the recording after this. So anybody who missed it can watch it again.
But for now from Kiran and I, and the team at Revenue Coach, thank you very much and goodbye!
